Is "Hip House" a legit sub-genre of Hip Hop?

[rchecka]

...

Or just a mutated inevitable offspring of house that want's to be Hip Hop so bad it hurts?

(AS A WHOLE!)

Sure there are exceptionally hip hopish hip house tracks but look at the big picture b4 answering simply yes or no.

Holler out as you vote , no "blind" voting. Support your choice with reasons.

[disconnexions]

...

Or just a mutated inevitable offspring of house that want's to be Hip Hop so bad it hurts?

(AS A WHOLE!)

Sure there are exceptionally hip hopish hip house tracks but look at the big picture b4 answering simply yes or no.

Holler out as you vote , no "blind" voting. Support your choice with reasons.

Why not.. what's the difference between rappers rhyming over disco beats and house beats? It's still rhyming over beats. Just like Bass music (2 Live Crew, etc) is considered a genre of Hip-Hop, why not Hip-House? Just because a lot of the songs were wack doesn't make you discard the whole sub-genre, but it's all subjective anyway.

[rchecka]

...

Or just a mutated inevitable offspring of house that want's to be Hip Hop so bad it hurts?

(AS A WHOLE!)

Sure there are exceptionally hip hopish hip house tracks but look at the big picture b4 answering simply yes or no.

Holler out as you vote , no "blind" voting. Support your choice with reasons.

Why not.. what's the difference between rappers rhyming over disco beats and house beats? It's still rhyming over beats.

Because the hook, verse and refrain, subject matter, bars, and basic concept are like night and day, that's why. The measures don't even come close to adding up. "Gonna make you sweat, get on the dance floor, Pump up the jam" lyrics don't even come close to HH at the time. Some of it screams wannabe MC you gotta admit it. Does Ya Kid K even hold a candle to MC Lyte? Nah. What about Snap vs. Chill Rob. <- Talk about poser MCs rip-off beat biting\Song biting in full effect.

Although there are certain artist exceptions, Hip House IMO is NOT a legit baby of HH, more like a house industry trying to jump on the HH bandwagon. So my vote is NO, it aint legit. Yes, certain tracks crossed boundaries, but look at THE MOVEMENT AS A WHOLE. Generalize!

I wanna hear both sides. Holler if I'm smoking schwizzo.

[mp]

There were tracks due to the bmp/style that were deemed hip house but leaned more towards hip hop

Tracks like
"For those that like to Groove" , "Do it the the Crowd" - Twin Hype
"Ya Bad Chubbs" - Chubb Rock
"Traveling At The Speed Of Thought" - Ultra Magnetic MCs
"I'll House You" - Jungle Brothers

These tracks sampled heavily beats used by artists such as Todd Terry et al.

Then you have the hip house mixes of hip hop tracks - many on UK releases! but even the US - most obscure is MC Outloud - I'll Put A Hurten - why a house version on that 12 amazes me...

And then artists who specifically released Hip House tracks such as Fast Eddie, Tyree, Kool Rock Steady , Tony Scott, Doug Lazy, Wendell Williams as well as many underground acts

And then the cash in merchants/commerical acts - Technotronic, Snap, Beatmasters, 2 in a room ...

I would say yes it is definitely a legit sub genre - i made it massive impact on the UK club scene back in the late 80's early 90's - I use to play a lot of these records back in the day - and man some of those tunes used to get the party jumpin....

[mr ed]

i;D SAY YES BECAUSE AT THE TIME A LOT THE big hitters and high profile producers took a stab at it... HIP-HOUSE was not isolated to it's own collective of artists... (although there were artists that only made hip-house!)...

SO YES, COS PEOPLE LIKE MARLEY MARL, THE 45 KING, KING TEE, KOOL G RPA & DJ POLO, EGYPTIAN LOVER, JUNGLE BROTHERS, KING SUN, ROB BASE & EZ ROCK, BIG DADDY KANE, HEAVY D, KID N PLAY, CRIAG G, QUEEN LATIFAH and more had a crack at it/jumped on the band wagon... I'd say, like it or not, their involvement made it a legit strain of hip-hop... not an enjoyable for the most part, but yep... Hip House was a facotr back then....

[disconnexions]

...

Or just a mutated inevitable offspring of house that want's to be Hip Hop so bad it hurts?

(AS A WHOLE!)

Sure there are exceptionally hip hopish hip house tracks but look at the big picture b4 answering simply yes or no.

Holler out as you vote , no "blind" voting. Support your choice with reasons.

Why not.. what's the difference between rappers rhyming over disco beats and house beats? It's still rhyming over beats.

Because the hook, verse and refrain, subject matter, bars, and basic concept are like night and day, that's why. The measures don't even come close to adding up. "Gonna make you sweat, get on the dance floor, Pump up the jam" lyrics don't even come close to HH at the time. Some of it screams wannabe MC you gotta admit it. Does Ya Kid K even hold a candle to MC Lyte? Nah. What about Snap vs. Chill Rob. <- Talk about poser MCs rip-off beat biting\Song biting in full effect.

Although there are certain artist exceptions, Hip House IMO is NOT a legit baby of HH, more like a house industry trying to jump on the HH bandwagon. So my vote is NO, it aint legit. Yes, certain tracks crossed boundaries, but look at THE MOVEMENT AS A WHOLE. Generalize!

I wanna hear both sides. Holler if I'm smoking schwizzo.

Of course Ya Kid K and Turbo were wack, but even as wack as they are they had more lyrical content than some of the hot songs out right now, so does that nullify the rappers out today, or just mean that there are a lot of wack rappers out there. Trina, Khia, Trick Daddy are just as wack as Fast Eddie in my book.

Those hooks you talked about were just as simple as the early hip-hop songs asking for people to "throw your hands in the air" and "ya don't stop". How about: "Rock The Body, Body"? That was Treacherous Three's whole hook. If anything the Hip-House songs were more akin to the early rhyming over Disco songs than the more modern rapping we see today. That doen't make them any less wack though, but the essence is there.

[ramses]

Sure it's hip hop, it just very bad hip hop.

[dj d-lite]

Just Say No!

But, "Sure it's hip hop, it just very bad hip hop" is more the truth.

[xborn]

Yes it's legit, it's bad IMO but it's legit cause we just decided that it was, thanks to this historical thread stating officially that Hip House is legit.

[mr ed]

X Born you should have had your ass banned from this place fro your comments about that lady that got murdered.

Just get frakked and don't come back. You're not welcome.

[doc savage]

Hip hop, but not my cup of tea. Apart from Let It Roll.

[rchecka]

X Born you should have had your ass banned from this place fro your comments about that lady that got murdered.

Just get frakked and don't come back. You're not welcome.

You two, settle down! Don't make me get out my dad voice on you both!

And everyone try to forget about quality and focus on the question. Every sub genre has garbage releases.


Think about the Hip Hop culture (ALL the elements)... Did Hip House fit in to the culture of Hip Hop?

[xborn]

Rchecka hip hop is recycling any kind of music since the beginning with dj's manipulating breakbeats then with producers using samplers.
So hip house is legit of course, as jazz rap is, techno rap, emo rap, backpack rap, pop rap , rock rap, hip pop, salsa hop, hip core, gangsta rap and so on...

[neb dirty]

Yes, it's a legit sub-genre of Hip-Hop music and even though I wasn't crazy about most of it, there were some good Hip-House songs.

Haha, man, the 80's were crazy.......

[rchecka]

I hear what you are all saying, but try to look at it like this…

(NOTE: A lot of this information I gathered from an article written in the Village Voice written back in the 80s by author Carol Cooper reprinted in the book And It Don’t Stop! Which I whole-heartedly agree with so don’t call me out for admittedly paraphrasing what this article states)

“(Hip House is) crossing barriers – musical, sexual, national, and conceptual. Anyone with a good sense of rhythm can do it: women, foreigners, whites. Yet this utopian inclusiveness is still subject to the bigoted world hip-house kids theoretically reject, gay straight, and multiethnic, this is the mixed demographic no record company dared to predict – and one that an international underground of DJs/producers labored years to create.”

“Its origins here in Gotham date back to 87, when the last few all-rap clubs were closing because of constant eruptions of violence. While rap spaces dwindled, more and more straight kids found themselves dancing at house clubs catering to a more subdued gay aesthetic.”

“…by 87, DJ Producer Todd Terry finally got one of his edited tape reels pressed up to a volcanic piece of vinyl called “Party People. …(sampling) Marshal Jefferson loops and Afrika Bambaataa’s “party people” from Planet Rock. Rap kids loved it because it paid homage to Bambaatta…(house- heads) liked the odd energy emanating from a syncopated backbeat that resembled a drunken rumba more then a traditional house 4/4 beat. A unifying hip house prototype was born.”

”…in the coming together of any of two established genres there is a scary period where artists worry if their fans will accept their adoption of the sound. (for example) Big Daddy Kane’s “The House that Cee Built”…to hedge against being tagged a collaborator with the gay underground, Kane undercuts his LP’s house track with a “fagg*t” lyric in another song on that album “Pimpin’ Ain’t Easy”

”So is Hip House the next phase of rap or the next phase of house? To which lineage does it most rightfully belong? That answer depends on who you ask…a member of rap orthodoxy (MC) or a (house-head)” (me - I am asking Hip Hop Heads, right?.)

”(It depends on if it is a) mainstream artist reaching down to an underground fad in a parody of street credibility or an artist who still inhabits that underground helping to reinvent it.”

”For anyone that (produces hip house) there are only two valid approaches (me - ONLY 1 valid approach if retaining the street credibility of Hip Hop) -- …Hip house that uses conventional song structure (proving that it is possible to get very sophisticated with street music and still have enough balls to tear up the dance floor)

(for example, with Jungle Brothers – “I’ll House You”)... the JBs execute not only verbal hooks but complete verses, bridges, turnarounds, and choruses, all laced with a satirical edge that still makes it have the funniest lyrics of its kind.”

So, after referencing this author’s view-point, (she puts it more eloquently), we go back to my question…

I am asking…

AS A WHOLE (INCLUDE ALL THE HOUSE ARTISTS FAKING HIP HOP, AND INCLUDE ALL THE LEGITIMATE HIP HOP ARTISTS DABBLING IN HIP HOUSE WITHOUT SACREFICING THEIR STREET CREDIBILITY INHERENT TO RAP MUSIC)… Is Hip House AS A WHOLE a legitimate form of Rap?

From what music I have personally heard, I’d say Hip House belongs more under the House\pop even R&B\pop umbrella moreso then Hip Hop music from back in the day (and still now for that matter) I realize I am asking you to generalize the whole genre based on your knowledge of all the hip house songs you have heard, which is clearly subjective, but it is what it is. Hip House is clearly a Frankenstein monster either way, but it’s acceptance amongst trueschoolers is definitely debatable. We won’t put it to rest here either, but we can try.