What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

The Real Old School Hip Hop Forum....Share and spread knowledge. Keep the history alive...Please limit discussions in the forum to topics no later than 1986.

What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby 5 Grand » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:10 pm

I just picked up super Disco breaks Vol 4. It has Rock It in The Pocket and Super Sperm. Its actually a pretty decent breakbeat LP. There were doubles in the sleeve.

Apparently, somebody sold their Paul Winley Breaks to A-1 because when I was digging at A-1 there were like 3 or 4 more Volumes. I was playing them in the headphones and I noticed there were errors in the way the songs were labeled.

Sport - Lightning Rod was labeled ""Hustler's Rap"
Apache - Michael Irwin's Incredible Bongo band was labeled "Apache" by the Arawak All Stars, although it sounded exactly like The incredible Bongo band's version.


There were other errors in the way they were labeled. \

However, the ones I was looking at appeared to be re-issued from 1984.

Does anybody know the history behind Paul Winley's Super Disco breaks and if or why they were mislabeled?

I'm pretty sure the one with Take Me To the Mardi Gras has a skip in the break.
5 Grand
Old School Godfather
Old School Godfather
 
Posts: 6051
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:00 am

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby and one » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:29 pm

Don;t know the whole story on these but I always assumed they were blatant bootlegs b/c I have a 12" version of Mardi Gras and it also has the same skip, and it's not on the Paul Winley label.
and one
Old School Academic
Old School Academic
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 1:00 am

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby dankdaddy » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:09 pm

5 Grand wrote:I just picked up super Disco breaks Vol 4. It has Rock It in The Pocket and Super Sperm. Its actually a pretty decent breakbeat LP. There were doubles in the sleeve.

Apparently, somebody sold their Paul Winley Breaks to A-1 because when I was digging at A-1 there were like 3 or 4 more Volumes. I was playing them in the headphones and I noticed there were errors in the way the songs were labeled.

Sport - Lightning Rod was labeled ""Hustler's Rap"
Apache - Michael Irwin's Incredible Bongo band was labeled "Apache" by the Arawak All Stars, although it sounded exactly like The incredible Bongo band's version.


There were other errors in the way they were labeled. \

However, the ones I was looking at appeared to be re-issued from 1984.

Does anybody know the history behind Paul Winley's Super Disco breaks and if or why they were mislabeled?

I'm pretty sure the one with Take Me To the Mardi Gras has a skip in the break.


I always wondered this myself I don't own the particular copy that has Mardi Gras but I do remember back in the day i was talking to JMJ (r.i.p.) backstage at a Run-DMC show about the "bells" break (as he referred to it) I was looking for a copy of Mardi gras and he told me the version on Paul Winley was the version to avoid at all cost. Later, Soulman (World of Beats) told me the same thing and I later read an interview with Mantronix and it seems like everyone had the same problem with the Paul Winley pressings.

The other things i heard was Winley pressed up Bambaatta's "death mix" without Bam's permission or blessing and Bam wasn't too happy about it. And that Paul Winley doesn't do interviews (especially about anything reguarding "Super Disco brakes" volumes)

There is very little info about him anywhere. He's sort of an enigma & a legend.
dankdaddy
Old School Academic
Old School Academic
 
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:37 pm

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby DjReadyRed » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:26 am

I have many volumes and I can tell you there very nasty and muddy sounding records.
But back then had no choice casue I couldn't find the originals then started using the Octopus breaks that sounded much better!
And anything you ever do I already did
Shoulda seen me rock the house when you was a kid!
Keith "Cowboy" Wiggins Rip Furious Five Mc

http://www.hiphopgods.com/Dj%20Ready%20Red
http://www.discogs.com/artist/DJ+Ready+Red
User avatar
DjReadyRed
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4323
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:00 am
Location: Trenton Rocks To The Planet Rock Don't Stop

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby dankdaddy » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:45 pm

ReadyRed

Was the sound quality of the first pressings of Winley breaks like they were pressed off a cassette tape or something? Thats what I was told the sound comparison was equivilant to.

I got the 2nd pressings so i guess they sounded a little better.
dankdaddy
Old School Academic
Old School Academic
 
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:37 pm

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby Beatmaster31 » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:26 am

Fellas,I think Winley was just using 'legalese".
You could beat alot of guys to the punch,
and make dollars in the 70's and early 80's if you knew your way around,
the legal aspects of the recording industry.Namely, Mr.Winley and one Sylvia Robinson.

You would have to get it from the horses mouth himself,
but he aint saying nothing.So we can only speculate.
But i'd put a dollar on that he specifically by design did things to the labeling
and to the recording to make them "not exactly" a duplicate.Dig what i'm saying.

Example...You breakbeat guys already know that ARAWAK was a recording company
that specialized in Calypso and Reggae music during that time.
So they probably had studio musicians that go down with Michael Viner's ventures.
Leading me to believe that is why they were called "Arawak All-Stars"
when clearly it is the same record as the Incredible Bongo Band.

I don't know how much Preston Epps you guys own,
but 5,you and Dank are no joke with your vinyl...so I am sure you have some.
Preston was the preeminant percussionist before King Errison,Ralph MacDonald & Paulinho
De Costa came along.Preston did " Bongo Rock" back in 1959.LOL.
Years before IBB.

I also came across a copy of "Bongo Rock" from a japanese cat named Akira Ishikawa
that was done in 1975.In which reduced the instrumentation,and went 4 bar on dat s**t.
It's kind of a funky re-make.

Here dig it fellas...

Preston Epps - Bongo Rock
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ftkwb2

Akira Ishikawa - Bongo Rock
http://www.sendspace.com/file/zq5gn6


I have long since had my Paul Winley bootlegs,
but I remember they were not done in the best of audio clarity.
Even so,I believe that was by Paul Winley's design to avoid lawsuits.
Only my opinion fellas.


LOL...

Image


This cat was something else,wasn't he?

This is his manta......

Ann Winley & Harlem Underground Band Southern Nights (12″) 1980
Afrika Bambaataa Zulu Nation Cosmic Force / Harlem Underground Band Zulu Nation Throwdown (12″) 1980
Afrika Bambaataa & Soulsonic Force Zulu Nation Throwdown (Volume 2) (12″) 1980
Harlem Underground Band / Cymande Smokin’ Cheeba-Cheeba / Bra (12″)
Creative Source / Harlem Underground Band Who Is He And What Is He To You / Finger In It (12″) 1979
Creative Source / Cymande Who Is He And What Is He To You / Bra (12″, Comp)
Paulett Winley* & Tanya Winley / Ann Winley Rhymin’ And Rappin’ / Watch Dog (12″) 1979
Paulett and Tanya Winley With Harlem Underground Band / Cymande Rhymin’ And Rappin’ / Bra (12″) 1979
Tanya – Sweet Tee – Winley* / Harlem Underground Band Vicious Rap (12″) 1980
Rap Dynasty Street Rock (12″) 1985

Afrika Bambaataa Death Mix (12″) 1983
Cymande Bra / The Message (12″)
Harlem Underground Band Smokin Cheeba-Cheeba / Ain’t No Sunshine (12″) 1976
D.J. Afrika Bambaata* Death Mix “2″ 2006
Various Death Mix “3″ (CD) 2006Cymande / Arawak All Stars Bra / Apache (12″)
Harlem Underground Band / Cymande.Vicious Rap (Instrumental) / Bra (12″, MP) 1980
Jimmy Castor Soul Sister (7″)
Mighty Tom Cats Soul Makossa / Tom Cat Reggay (7″)
Mighty Tom Cats Love Potion-Cheeba-Cheeba (7″, Single) 1973
Ann Winley Talk To Me (7″)
Jimmy Castor The Jimmy Castor Story “From The Roots” (LP)
Jimmy Castor Bunch, The The Jimmy Castor Story “From The Roots” (LP)
Mighty Tom Cats, The* Soul Makossa (LP)
Various Disco Freak Party (12 Smokin’ Joints) (LP)
Harlem Underground Band Harlem Underground (LP) 1976
George Benson With Harlem Underground Band, The* Erotic Moods ? (2 versions) 1978
Various Super Disco Brake’s Volume One (LP, Ltd) 1979
Malcolm X Grass Roots Speech Detroit, Michigan November 1963 (12″)
Malcolm X The Ballot Or The Bullet (Vinyl, EP)
Various Super Disco Brake’s Volume Two (LP) 1979
Various Super Disco Brake’s Volume Three (LP) 1980
Cymande Arrival (LP) 1981
Various Super Disco Brake’s Volume Four (LP) 1981
Various Super Disco Brake’s Volume Five (LP, Comp)
Various Super Disco Brake’s Volume Six (LP) 1984
Malcolm X Black Man’s History Volume One (12″) 2003
Rap Dynasty Street Rock (12″, RE) 2001
Various Super Disco Brakes – Volume One (LP, Ltd) 1979
Afrika Bambaataa Death Mix (CD) 2007



Peace to ya,Keep em' spinnin'
User avatar
Beatmaster31
Old School Godfather
Old School Godfather
 
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:00 am

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby thunderlippps » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:25 am

Arawak is also a tribe of Indians.
Get it?
Apache...
Indians...

I read in an old hip hop book that Winley was just basically an entrepreneur trying to make a buck.

He found out the kids were using these breaks to rap over and that a lot were hard to find and probably pricey to collect doubles of all those different albums, so he bootlegged them.

I never thought about it before, but I'll bet beatmaster is correct that he mislabeled them on purpose to throw off lawsuits.

The sound quality probably wasn't a big concern at the time for the purpose they were intended for.
And I'm sure they weren't from no master tapes.

Then I reckon when he found out that raps on records were selling he had he daughter cut a rap record.
Then he pressed up a tape of a Bambatta/Jazzy Jay party...
thunderlippps
Old School Member
Old School Member
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:16 am

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby Dj Dres » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:02 pm

I also hated the sound quality of those Paul Winley Breaks..
I know i spent many dollars on them back in the day at Music Factory in Times Square (RIP)..
PEACE!
User avatar
Dj Dres
Old School Professor
Old School Professor
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Bronx, NY

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby PappaWheelie MBH » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:19 pm

I'm currently working on a Bassipedia entry for The Breaks, and give Super Disco Brake's its own section. Still open to tweak, add, update, etc.

"Paul Winley Records Inc. (more commonly credited as Winley Records) was a doo-wop record label founded in 1956. Similar to Joe Webb Records and All Platinum Records, the label moved from Doo-Wop to Soul before discovering Hip-Hop and ushering in the age of Rap Records. However, before any Rap records were released, Paul Winley was selling to local record stores such as Downstairs Records backstock of vintage records he could not market himself. In turn, Downstairs was tripling the price and selling them to Hip-Hop DJs during the late 1970s. Realizing the market, Winely produced a series of six albums entitled Super Disco Brake’s (sic) between 1979 and 1984, compiling the most popular breaks being sold at Downstairs Records with a few Winley releases. In turn, Downstairs sold Winley’s series inconspicuously beneath the counter, to avoid authorities policing for bootleggers. Although criticized for the inconsistent quality, the series found moderate success."

http://www.miamibasshistory.com/wiki/ba ... he-breaks/
PappaWheelie MBH
Old School Rookie
Old School Rookie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:12 pm

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby troylsmith21 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:35 pm

Good stuff PappaWheelie MBH. I tried very hard to interview Paul Winley. He turned me down over and over until finally he said young man please don't call me know more I don't care what the public feels about me. Of course this came after I asked him about that 1978 instead of 1979 record. He lives across from me up here in Harlem I'll get him one day. Lol.
Obama's the President, PULL YOUR PANTS UP!

Troy from HARLEM, One
troylsmith21
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 2503
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 12:00 am
Location: HARLEM

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby PappaWheelie MBH » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:29 pm

Wow, Troy, would love to know how that goes down, if and when it does. Best of luck!
PappaWheelie MBH
Old School Rookie
Old School Rookie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:12 pm

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby anmol77 » Fri May 06, 2016 7:21 am

I have many volumes and I can tell you there very nasty and muddy sounding records....
anmol77
Old School Rookie
Old School Rookie
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 6:34 am

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby willcee2016 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:27 pm

im still pissed over that damn mardi gras skip..my dumb ass went and bought 2 more copies before i realized it wasnt a scratch on the record....hey..i was a kid.. lol
willcee2016
Old School Rookie
Old School Rookie
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby fizza » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:09 am

It sounded like the Paul Winley version of Apache that was used for 'You Can't Dance' by LL Cool J. It has the crunchy hi-end that sounds like that version anyway.
fizza
Old School Godfather
Old School Godfather
 
Posts: 2359
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:00 am
Location: TX

Re: What's the story on the Paul Winley Breaks?

Postby KoolDJMace » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:16 pm

In an article published in July 1978 in Billboard (name B-beats Bombarding Bronx) written by Robert Ford Jr. I read the following: “Herc's intensive searching for tunes has now even come up with a new remake of "Bongo Rock." The '73 tune has been covered by a group called the Arawak All -Stars on an apparently Jamaican -based label, Arswal records.” It seems the writer is referring tot the bootleg record by Winley.
KoolDJMace
Old School Rookie
Old School Rookie
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:29 pm

Next

Return to Old School Discussions and Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron